A Horrible, Awful, Crummy, not Fun, Terrible Discovery......
(but I'm gunna tell you ennyway......) I originally said "not good", but it is good,(in a way) but not fun...
Once upon a time......
Once upon a time there was a very, very, very, happy Universe full of very happy busy persons. It was FUN !! Everyone got along very well too ! All kinds of things were being invented and made, “look, look ! A new Star !! I just made an amazing Tree ! Hey look, a new color ! Wow ! That's a really different Galaxy ! Look ! I just invented the Duck-Billed-Platypus !”
Wait, stop the presses, “duck-billed-platypus”? you're disrupting the flow of the story here. “oh, sorry. But it's really interesting, and I made it myself !” yes, yes we know, but we're trying to make a point here. Maybe later, ok ?
Ahem, were was I ? Oh yeah, The Universe was a very, very happy place people got along very well, nobody ever Lied, or for that matter, ever heard of Lying. No one took anyone else's Toys and there was no hitting. No one was mean.
But overseeing all of this was a very wise, kind & generous Person named, you Guessed it, Yehovah. But everyone just called him “Dad”. Because, well, that's who he was. He was always very warm and affectionate with his children. But like all parents, there was much more depth to him than any of his children could have ever imagined, any of them.
Like all parents he would drop little clues and suggestions, hoping his children would think about them..... and they did kinda, “yes, yes Dad, we know, we know.”
But they really weren't listening as carefully as they should. Oh, they THOUGHT they were, but their Father kindly and patiently knew they weren't. He would drop little clues and encouragement from time-to-time, “You're all such Good Children, but I'll make you a promise. If you think really, really hard and deeply you will understand Life, Me, and my Spirit like never before. And if you do, I will Guarantee you that you will never, ever die. You'll be immortal, just like Me”. Even Jesus when he heard Yehovah say this would have a little happy laugh, and say to himself, and sometimes out-loud “Oh Dad, as long as you're Immortal we're all happy and fine”.
The other children would say things like;
"OK Dad, thanks. We're having a Party in the New Galaxy. Do you want to come ?!” And so it went, for Billions and Billions of Years. No one ever worried about dying, or anything. “Dad allllwaaaays says that. Hey, I'll race you to the next nebula !! wheeee.....!!!”
….....really let that soak in........
And then Earth happened.....
You See, This is the Discovery:
(this is the “part A” of the Discovery, it gets more worser)
No One, and I do mean NO ONE. Had really paid attention and really listened fully and carefully and DEEPLY to Yehovah/Holy Spirit. And really “Got It”. No One.
Not Even Jesus
"You take that back !!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!”
I can't, because it's actually a scripture in the Bible. Oh yes it is. Right here:
Hebrews 5:8, 9, “Although he was a son, He finally learned to Listen Very, Very carefully, and Get It, because of the things He Painfully Suffered. And then, and only then, did He become Completed and Perfect.” (paraphrase)
If this amazing Scripture wasn't in the Bible, I wouldn't believe it myself.
It actually says he “Learned” to “Listen Deeply”, and then he “became completed/perfect”. (an interlinear would be a good idea right about now)
It's just so Over-the-top ! And deserves much, much, much, contemplation. All I can say is Wow !! what a verse !
You see, all Bibles translate “Hupakoe” (Strong's G5218, G5219) as Obedience. But Jesus did not need to learn Obedience. HE WAS ALREADY PERFECTLY OBEDIENT, AND SAID SO HIMSELF !!!! He did “Nothing of his own will/originality”. Hupakoe really means to 'really listen very carefully/deeply', literally to “Listen Under”..... Understand ?
He needed to learn to think more Deeply and Really Listen to what Yehovah was saying !!
Religions love to translate this as “Obedience”, because that's how they get their money/power.
But Yehovah is trying to Reach something much deeper, your Heart, Yes Really, your Spirit, and your deepest Reasonings, Always.
He doesn't need robots, who are, by the way, very obedient.
In my observation, every Scripture where Strong's G5218 & G5219 is translated “Obedient, Obey, or Obedience,” becomes much much more meaningful and rich when it is translated as “Listen Deeply[with your/their heart]”...... Which is what the Greek sez ennyway.....
Obedience is really about being controlled, regardless of how you feel.
Listening & Reasoning Deeply, in this context, is about true freedom to act on your deepest feelings from your own heart/spirit.....it is the Highest use of Free Will. You have Reasoned Deeply about Right & Wrong, and the very Nature of The Holy Spirit, and you Choose, of your own free-will from a sense of Personal Discovery, to behave in a resonate/harmonious manner.
As a child, you may Perfectly and Obediently brush your teeth every night, but that does not mean you really, really understand why. If you become a Dental Pathologist THEN you Really Get It.
Maybe it can be expressed this way: There is a Difference Between “Obedience” and “Intelligent Obedience”.The Action is the same but the Spirit is Very Very Different.
And to bolster this point; this pattern was clearly demonstrated in the Garden with the Two Trees.
Tree 1, Tree of knowledge of Good and Bad, i.e. “Basic obedience”.
Tree 2, Tree of (immortal) Life, “Intelligent Obedience”.
But here's the deal: In the History of the Universe NO ONE had ever bothered to make it to “Tree 2 Level” Not even Jesus ! Heb 5:8,9 makes that very very clear. Please note VS 9 'After becoming Perfect' !! (Strong's G5048, “completed”) Which is not to say he was imperfect, but just as a person with a perfect physique might not be an acrobat, they can acquire perfect acrobatic skills. But the Bible really says that He became Perfect/Completed, Just Amazing !!
And No, they don't teach this in Church.
OK, here's the Bad News (part B):
We're NEVER, EVER Going Back.
Paradise as it was known, IS NEVER, EVER COMING BACK !! The only ones who will have everlasting life in the future, will be persons who have “Conquered the World” as Jesus did.... After traversing a “Long and Narrow Path”.... 'Drinking from This Cup',.... and being “Baptized into His Death”. And learning from Him to “Listen Very carefully Under”. Heb 5:9
The Playground Universe is OVER !
Now that the Universe has become infected with Sin, the only way it can go forward is with the Universal inoculation of a perfected, Christ-Like, Deep-Thinking, integrity. We too, need to become “Completed”.
It used to be; from Creation until the Garden, all you had to do was show up, “learn to not take other peoples Toys, and you are welcome to stick around as long as you want”.... “And Oh, by the Way, iff'n you really want to knock yourself out and understand everything really really deeply, We've got the tree of Everlasting, (Immortal) Life over here”.
Those days are gone, G-O-N-E, as in: GONE.
As Jesus progressed in his Ministry, his disciples started to get a troubling inkling of this and flat-out asked Jesus, “Are those being saved Few ?”.
somewhat blunt answer was: 'Work
Hard as you possibly can', 'broad and roomy is the road to death, but
narrow and cramped is the road to life..... AND FEW ARE THE ONES FINDING IT '.... (Luke 13:24, Matt 7:13&14)
!! "FEW" is Jesus's own word !! (Strong's G3641)
You're not smiling.....
Let's take a closer look at some of the details of Jesus's Life and Death.
Did you know: that it was just hours, not days before Jesus was crucified that he said “I have Conquered the World”, did you know that ?
Did you notice?: That at the end of his crucifixion, that there was one more surprise waiting for him ? When the Movie should have been just about over, that in great surprise and shock he cries out, “Eli, Eli, Lama, Sabachthani ?!” “My God, my God, why have you Forsaken me ?!” Why ?
Up to that point Jesus had never had a moment without God's Love or Spirit blessing him. By God totally withdrawing his Spirit from Jesus it allowed Jesus on his own, to Perfect his own Spirit. Completely. And see the Absolute perfection and Rightness of The Holy Spirit. Similar to what had happened in the Garden of Gethsemane some hours earlier, but at a much higher level, surprising Jesus himself. In Gethsemane he reached absolute agreement with his Father's will. At his death he reached absolute conviction IN HIS OWN WILL OF HIS OWN WILL And apparently Absolute Personal Understanding and Resonance with the very depth of the HOLY SPIRIT !!!
Just thinkin' out loud here; by having the Holy Spirit completely removed from him, Jesus's own Spirit was completely Revealed, ON IT'S OWN, for all to see, including Jesus.
And it was revealed to be Perfected ! Wow !!
And, I might add, He also thus became Qualified to run the Kingdom on his own for the Thousand Years.
He, Jesus, didn't fully “Get It” or at least, know how deeply He “Got It” himself until right before he died !!! I think my head's exploding !
I think one of the first things Jesus said to His Father when he got back to Heaven is, “Now I Get it”. With the warmest of Smiles, and a slight, but kind, chuckle, his Father said, “I know.”
Yehovah plays a verrry looong game. He waited Billions of years to hear that.
I'm tellin' yah, he's got a thing for riddles.
All of this was this was not a happy discovery for me. And it raises the bar for salvation very high, 'those being saved are few', and 'if it is with difficulty that the righteous are being saved, where then will the sinner stand a chance ?'
No One, and I do mean NO ONE. In all of the Billions of years since creation had really really paid attention and really listened fully and carefully and DEEPLY to Yehovah/Holy Spirit. And really “Got It”. No One. And really, to be fair, there was no real pressing need at that time either. Life was just fine. Even Jesus didn't learn until he suffered. Really Think about That.
We're NEVER, EVER Going Back.
Paradise as it was known, IS NEVER, EVER COMING BACK !! The only ones who will have everlasting life will be persons who have “Conquered the World” as Jesus did.... After traversing a “Long and Narrow Path”.... 'Drinking from This Cup',.... and being “Baptized into His Death”. And learning from Him to “Listen Very carefully Under”. Heb 5:9
Now that the Universe has become infected with Sin, the only way it can go forward is with the Universal inoculation of a perfected, Christ-Like, Deep-Thinking, integrity. (Heb 5:9)
We too, need to become “completed”. Tree 2 Level
Trust needs to be restored. AND ASSURED.
And that can only happen if everyone has a TESTED Proven integrity..... Starting with Jesus, Which is Heb 5:8, and then us, which is Heb 5:9
The Perfection and Beauty in the Repaired/New Universe will be much much higher/better, but the “Fun Factor” will be lower, if that makes any sense to you. Kind of a “Sadder but Wiser” thing.
The Old Universe was filled with Life, From Jesus.
The New Universe will be filled with Everlasting IMMORTAL Life, From Jesus.
Jesus did not come to Earth to Achieve and Give Life,
He came To Achieve and Give Everlasting Immortal Life.
Which had never existed before, for anyone other than Yehovah. (1 Tim 6:16) !!!
(This is what Paul is referring to in 2 Cor 5:17 & Gal 6:15, when he speaks of a "New Creation".)
Immortal Life had never existed before, for anyone other than Yehovah. (1 Tim 6:16) !!!
and never in a Created Person !!!!!
Jesus was not Immortal before he came to Earth! Whether you think He was Created or not.
How can I prove that ? He Died. …..end of discussion.
Heb 1:5 Clearly shows that from Yehovah's point of view that Jesus was born again as a Newly Now Immortal Son. Why else would it say “I TODAY/NOW/THIS DAY (Strong's G4594) have Begotten you as my Son” ? This, after Jesus having already lived for Billions of years ?
Please consider this, not from our viewpoint, and not even from Jesus's viewpoint, but from Yehovah's viewpoint: this was the first time, and first Person, first friend, first Companion that he knew would be with Him for all of Eternity to come. The First Immortal Person other than Himself !! Jesus did not have eternal immortal life before this. Up to this point, Other than Yehovah, NO ONE DID !! (1 Tim 6:16) Heb 1:5 clearly shows that Jesus had, once again, but at a much higher level, become Yehovah's First-Born !! And doesn't Hebrews 1:5 really make much more sense now ? All I can say is Wow !!
"Work out your Salvation with Fear and Trembling” & “Exert yourself vigorously” makes more sense now, huh ? In fact, this mind-set makes a lot of Scriptures make more sense........
"You're not a very nice christian, and I don't like you”
Others have said similar things, actually.......
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Some after-thoughts, Random Qs & A's, the odd bit, etc. etc. :
Didn't Paul have to work like a dog for DECADES to finally 'Get It' ?
Notice this progression/evolution of Paul's spiritual growth:
At Romans 7:21-24 ('bout year 23-5 "on the path") he is complaining that he can't get control of his sinful state. But by the time he has reached Phil 3:12-16 ('bout 5 years later) there seems that some progress has been made. It sounds like he's saying 'I'm making progress, but I haven't got it just quite yet'. But 2Tim 4:6-8 ('bout his 33rd year as a christian) is very different ! Here Paul very clearly says "I got it ! From here on the Crown of Life is reserved for me ! Wheeee !" He grew Spirituality, and finally “Got it” ! Many persons treat Romans 7 as a static, or permanent condition of Paul's. But it was not, it was simply the earlier stage of his spiritual growth.
(well worth noting, is that in Rom 7:24 the Greek word "talaiporos"(G5005), which most translations render as "wretched", "unhappy", etc. Is actually more correctly translated 'calloused from carrying heavy weight'. Thus actively dynamically working, "I'm working hard here people!", not miserably stuck in one place. and I would add, this truly is the best use of the word "Evolution" i.e. "good turning" or good progression.)
Here is an Amazing Scripture that merits much contemplation:
"make captive every thought to listen deeply to Christ” -2 Cor 10:5
-make captive every thought- sounds like alot alot of work to me
Think back on what you know of the Life of Jesus. The very first event recorded in His life is Him Questioning and Listening and Learning from the Teachers in the Temple. Doesn't His whole life on earth leave you with the feeling of someone learning, observing, and meeting challenges, yes Growing in Spirit. (remember the end of the 40 days in the wilderness? Challenged by Satan ?) The word “Walkabout” seems to describe his life.
Is this starting to make sense ?
But factor this into your cogitation of this: The Very First thing Yehovah taught All of His Children was not to covet. And that's a good thing, but you need to have an awareness of this to understand that all of his children would not covet His immortality either. Thus further reducing the incentive to achieve Immortality.
Really let that soak in........
Actually, one of the most powerful lessons I've learned in life is the importance and power of incentive & incentivising.
With that in mind look at this amazing Scripture:
"Jesus... ...who for the Joy set before him endured the Cross” -Heb 12:2
Look at that !! “FOR THE JOY SET BEFORE HIM, HE ENDURED THE CROSS” !! Even Jesus was incentivised !! when this hit me I was stunned at first. But it makes sense, but you just don't think of Jesus that way.
We all respond to incentive !!
Now think, please; there was never any incentive for Billions and Billions of years to reach “Tree 2 Level” !! It just wasn't there !!!
This was a hard point for me to digest mentally at first. But it explains many things. For one, why no-one had achieved “Tree 2” awareness, hey why bother ?
Even Jesus had to be negatively incentivised, (Pain, Suffering) & positively incentivised (Joy set before him ) !!
It's just not what we're used to hearing. This really took me awhile to absorb, it really did.
In all of the Billions of years before the Garden Event, No one was incentivised to really “Get it”. Life was too good. I guess we all kind of have a bit of a lazy streak in us. Even Jesus, after becoming fully aware of the problem didn't fully “Get it” until he 'suffered painfully'. Some real food for thought here.
But Yehovah put the “Tree of Life” right there in the Garden knowing that, even after billions of years no-one had ever reached that Level.
Well, if you build an Apartment Building and put in Fire-Extinguishers does that mean that you're PLANNING on having a fire, or that your PREPARED for a fire ??
Yehovah had to know that the probability of someone reaching “Tree 2 Level” was very low, after all, he knew that Jesus hadn't reached that level.
But did God know that someday a “Tree 2 Level” Emergency would happen ?
Here are some thoughts:
Astronomers put the age of the Universe at about 13-20 Billion years.
In all of those Billions and Billions of years, with all of the near-infinite opportunities for a “Tree 2” event to be triggered. It NEVER happened.
So, it was a very very low probability event, but not (obviously) an impossible one.
•But did it have to happen ? Did Yehovah KNOW it would happen ?
When you figure the possible Billions of Planets, and their inhabitants, and the possible 100s of Billions of Angels, and Billions of years, there is NO question that it was an extremely LOW probability-event.
My thinking is this: It did not HAVE to happen. But to accommodate the absolute completeness of “Free-Will” the possibility HAD to be there.
Did Yehovah expect it would get as bad as things have gotten if a Major “Tree 2” event happened ?
No he did not.
Here's How I know that :
In Genesis 6: 7 Yehovah said “I do regret I have made Man”. You don't regret something that turns out the way you expect. Or gets much worse than you expected.
Gen 8:21 reads very clearly like the words of someone who has come to accept something that they didn't want or expect. “I've come to see that man's thoughts are inclined to evil from childhood, ~sigh~” (my paraphrase)
Isaiah 59:16 “ When Yehovah saw that there was not one man standing up for Justice, He was just Astonished and Amazed...” (my paraphrase)
I think this scripture means just what it says.
Mark 6:6 “When Jesus saw their lack of belief/faith, He was simply amazed and wondered at their disbelief.” (my paraphrase)
In my mind's-eye I hear Jesus saying in His head, “We made you better than this !! How is it even possible for you people to not grasp what's right in front of you ?!”
Think, please, Yehovah is called “The Happy God” and he is. The universe was nothing but happy and fun for Billions of years. Yehovah never had a mean cruel or nasty thought in His life . It just ain't in 'im !!
Persons will say God Knows Everything, really ? I've never seen that Scripture. Have you ?
Yes, he can predict the future, it's not the same thing.
We're so used to all of this garbage that we can't imagine life without it.
He's such a happy clean good person that he could have never imagined life WITH all of this garbage. He had no reason to ever consider or think about it.
No, I've never heard this before either. But I know it's true. And it is Quite Clearly stated in the Bible.
This might help: Ask yourself this simple Question, “does this raise or lower your opinion of God ?” For me the answer is: it raises my opinion, and re-enforces my perception of His 100% Happy Clean Nature/Spirit”.
Remembering my mom's dictum, “The Truths about God should raise your Opinion of Him”.
This is a Big Big Discovery for me to grasp, it really is. I've really perceived things backwards 'til now, it may be a different perspective to you also. We may understand this intellectually, but do you really FEEL it viscerally, you know, deep in your guts ?
The point that's really trying to be conveyed here is; how separate and removed God, by his very nature, is from all of the uncleanness that we are so used to.
Is that coming across ?
Persons will say “we cannot understand the Mind of God”. Really ? And just Why Not ? Last time I checked, we were made in his Image. A parent expects their children automatically to understand them, not completely, but substantially. True of God, true of Us. Making Him appear so distant and unknowable serves Who's purposes ?
Often when I deal with a confounding perplexing question/situation I ask 2 Questions:
“What Problem is this Solving ?
“To Who's benefit ?”
Making God seem to be unknowable, solves What Problem ?
And To Who's Benefit ?
Who's job does it make easier ?
I'm not going to Answer that for you.
If you were to catch Satan in an honest moment and ask him what has been his biggest surprise in all of this mess he's caused, I think he would say, “I'm surprised that He's been able to put up with so much nasty rotten stuff”.
If you were to ask Yehovah a similar question, 'What has been your biggest surprise in this mess that Satan has caused ?' I think he would say, "I'm surprised how much horrible rotten stuff I've had to put up with."
He was, however, not surprised in His ability to put up with it.
Just a little p.s. here: if Jesus himself didn't 'get it' until just right before he died, maybe we could cut fellow Christians some slack if they don't fully 'get it'. In fact, when you 'get it', they kill you. Thus, if you're dealing with a live living breathing Christian they prolly ain't 'got it' yet.